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hi this is probably the proverbial needle in a haystack but i would be ever so grateful for some help.
my grandads brother was a joseph smith 1888 - ?1952. born in todmorden, but moved to birkenhead age 2 with parents sarah and sam. as far as im aware he lived there till his death.
he married a queenie - surname unknown. mum only knew her as queenie so im not sure whether it was her real name or not.apparently their daughter - joy was born c1925, im assuming in the birkenhead/wirral area.she never married and lives/d in dublin as an adult.
anyway im looking for joseph and queenies marriage details and also joys birth. i reckon if i can find the latter it will have her mothers maiden name.
i have searched the bmds on ancestry and cant find either. is it me or not???? many thanks

Just to say that Queenie was a proper name. I do transcribing and it often comes up in indexes.

I'll have a look for you.

Marriages Sep 1927

Merrett Queenie Smith Monmouth 11a 48
Smith Joseph W J Merrett Monmouth 11a 48

Possible on Lancs bmd for Joy A Smith birth registered in 1923 Toxteth Park East, Liverpool.

Name: Joseph Smith
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Samuel
Mother's Name: Sarah A
Gender: Male
Where born: Todmorden, Yorkshire, England

Civil Parish: Birkenhead
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Birkenhead
Sub registration district: Birkenhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 265
Household Members: Name Age
Doris Smith 2
Joseph Smith 13
Samuel Smith 34
Samuel H Smith 1 month
Sarah A Smith 35
Sydney Smith 4
Walter Smith 8


View
Original
Record

View original image

thanks for the replies all of you. i dont think the monmouth marriage is the right one - firstly its quite late and 2nd i dont think joseph had any other given names. but thanks
the joy smith birth in liverpool is a possibility about the right period etc. will have to speak to mum, see what she thinks. unfortunately there is no mothers name and i cant find it on ancestry, yet. v strange

I'd like to add that whilst Queenie CAN be a given name - it is also a pet name.

Whilst researching for someone else on here -
the name turned out to be Alexandra - known as - Queenie because she was born at the time of King Edward VII coronation.

So keep your options open!

Christine

Sara, the Joy Smith birth that has been found is with the mother's maiden name of Smith, this would imply either a Smith/Smith pairing or an illegitimate birth,


Tracey

hi, i did have a thought that queenie maybe a pet name. thats why i thought finding their daughters birth details may help.
im sure that joseph and queenie were married but, yes its possible that they were a smith/smith couple....ive checked through the marriage indexes 1915 -25 and cant find a smith - smith pairing. plus ive x referenced all the likely ones but no queenie
i just found amongst 100`s of bits of paper ive accumulated over the last few years - joy audrey smith. so the toxteth entry for Joy A is looking increasingly likely. still cant find it on ancestry though.
so frustrating, its not crucial to my research but mum and dad have been asking for ages to see a copy of our tree and i ve finally got round to starting it properly and want as much accuracy and fact as poss. thanks

Sara

When you say you cannot find it, do you mean the automated replies on screen?

The reference may only be found digging into the actual full bmd page by page....as jeanette hasn't given you the Qtr.



Tracey

Sara is right, though the birth appears on Lancs FreeBMD it is not in any quarter of 1923 on Ancestry, I have just looked.

thanks for looking Rutland Belle.looking through those scanned pages can be quite hard going. especially if you dont have a specific period of time and have to look through many years and many quarters.i thought i might have missed it.

Sara

you can download an application form from LancsBMD to order the cert direct from the relevant Register Office.

Sorry Sara, I should also have said that I could not find it on ancestry bmd. No idea why. Lancs bmd does not give a quarter.

Tracey

Where did you see the MMN as Smith? There is no MMN given on the Lancsbmd site, meaning it hasn't been indexed, not that it the same as the child's surname.

Potty

Think Tracey has seen a Joy Smith who was born in Poplar in 1923 with the maiden name of Smith.

OK, thanks Jeanette. It's a shame the Toxteth one isn't on the GRO index as then it should have the MMN and solve the problem!

found this....

Joyce SMITH - Birkenhead 8a 809 - Q2 1926
mmn SMITH

Maybe she was Joyce known as Joy????

Christine

i`ll probably order a certificate at some point. its just i havent got a lot of money to spare (who has at the mo) and i like to be as certain as i can before buying., its just something thats bugging me i guess. i like solving problems and knocking down brickwalls.
thanks for your help everyone

just been talking to mum. said shes almost certain her real name was queenie - apparently she was irish. mum says there was another daughter - vera who died when she was 7, and joy was born sometime after she died. so i think i need to start searching marriages around 1910 - 1915, probably birkenhead. sara